Moving from "Passive" to "Active" Practice Management

Why is practice chaos costing you money?

Terri Ross: Hey, hey, tribe, what's going on? Welcome back to another episode of In Touch with Terri. And I have none other than Shannon Blake. She is no stranger to this podcast, she's a very dear friend of mine, and she's also the director of aesthetic partnerships at Podium.

Shannon Blake: Hey, girl, what's up?

Terri: Hey, Terri — I'm doing pretty good, how are you?

Shannon: I'm good, I'm good. So good to have you back. I know we are ready to rock and roll for y'all.

Terri: And you guys, Podium has just been exploding with so much growth, and you and I do this dog-and-pony banter all the time, but I wanted to have you back on to talk about something that I'm asked probably every single day, and it's just becoming chaos. And so the chaos in your practice is costing you money.

Terri: Okay, it's costing you money, and why: the future of aesthetic practices is now using an AI operating system. I know it's the big hype, we're going to talk a lot about AI for y'all, but Podium has some really exciting stuff, and I've been working with them now for years, and I'm just grateful for the friendship and the partnership and what they're able to do. It supports what I teach. So let's dive in. Our team is inside practices every day, and the tech stack, the software chaos, the multiple systems, multiple logins, data everywhere, no single source of truth, is just becoming — and I'm sure you guys would agree, give me a hell yeah in the comments — it's just becoming very frustrating and very, very expensive.

Terri: So Shannon, for those of you that don't know her, I'd love for you to share a little bit about your background, and really kind of what's going on at a high level with Podium, and then we'll dive in.

How did Shannon come to lead Podium's aesthetics business?

Shannon: Yeah, love it. So for those of you that don't know me, I'm Shannon Blake, director of aesthetic partnerships at Podium. I've been at Podium for six years and stepped in to manage our healthcare partnerships about four years ago. It was more traditional healthcare, and I very quickly started paying attention to the growth that was happening in this industry. I thought we had a really good product-market fit to solve some very critical problems in the aesthetics industry. So we actually restructured our entire company. We have just over a thousand employees, and a third of our business — it used to be a fourth of our business — is now a third of our business. We have gone even more all-in on this industry, and now we're living, eating and breathing aesthetics.

Shannon: Over the last two years we've gotten really good at solving one problem, which was speed to lead: being able to bring every single lead type into a single platform, and then layer on an AI employee that can answer any question like your very best human. That has gone extremely well. We have the pleasure of working with about 2,500 practices around the US now.

Why did Podium build its own EMR for Avery?

Shannon: But it became very clear to us about a year ago that the technology that supports this industry isn't good enough, if I'm being totally honest. It's not a slam on anyone — building something like an EMR is quite difficult, and they were also built when tech was a little older and more antiquated. So we made a big decision that we needed to give Avery, our AI employee, a superpower, and give her access to all of the information about a practice. In order to do that, we had to build an EMR ourselves.

Shannon: It was early on that we realized we're dealing with a totally different landscape in building technology today, with the advancement of AI, and that we could actually build a really incredible operating system — that's what we're calling it, because it's not just an EMR. To simplify it, it allows us to solve some very important problems, not just speed to lead, but getting more appointments on your calendar. Avery couldn't do that without us being the EMR — she didn't have access to the scheduling system, for example. So for so many reasons, and with everything we have planned for the future, we had to be the EMR. We couldn't just keep waiting for these EMRs to let us integrate, nor did we think they had all the answers or had it right. We wanted to build it ourselves, the way that we know how to build good, modern tech. It's been a wild ride, but we launched it about two months ago.

Terri: That is so exciting. Well, congratulations, number one, for being an innovator in this space. We'll probably bounce around a little bit, but I want to back up.

What's broken in today's med spa tech stack?

Terri: So for context, you shared a little bit about launching Avery, and you couldn't do Avery without your own EMR. But when you guys took a look at the market as a whole — because, God, I had Lasky back in like 2014, and then that evolved, and now there's so many different software options on the market. I think people are very confused: an EMR, a CRM, it does phone, my phone system does this — it's really confusing, and then they're not even using them to full capacity. So when you guys looked at the market, what did you realize was broken?

Shannon: Yeah, so definitely fragmentation in technology, there's no surprise there. This will probably resonate with a lot of you, but traditionally in a practice you have an EMR, you have a CRM — hopefully, some people don't even have that to track and manage leads — you've got your phone system, which is separate, and then maybe a different phone number that you're using for text appointment reminders and things like that. Generally practices have about three to five different systems, and that's a lot for your front desk, for example, to be able to manage everything.

Shannon: Not to mention, if you don't have a system consolidating all your leads, your front desk is trying to log into social media channels and check leads coming in from there, or DMs, or logging into different email addresses to find leads from contact-us forms or Google ads. It's honestly chaos. I understand very clearly now why practices aren't driving as much revenue, or aren't as profitable as they could be, because they have too many systems, and it's quite difficult for a human to navigate and manage all of them.

Terri: God, even you saying it makes it hard for what we do at Terri Ross Consulting, when we're trying to do a business evaluation and audit all of that stuff. It's just a mess. And sadly, they might intuitively know it, but not until they see the physical, actual data that's being lost — hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Why is every platform now claiming to be all-in-one?

Shannon: With that being said, there are a lot of choices. It's loud, it's confusing. This was also why Podium had to make a big move. Some of the major EMRs — I won't list them all off, you generally know who they are because you've tried a few of them — are also moving in the direction of an all-in-one system. You'll go to any of their websites and see "all-in-one solution," because from a technology perspective, they hear you, they understand it's been fragmented and challenging. So everyone's trying to build this all-in-one system — that's the good news.

Shannon: The differentiator for Podium, and what I'd encourage everyone to really think about, is it's not just about finding a system that has your EMR, your CRM, your phone system all in one place, but who's thinking about and building it with AI in mind — where can AI take over the tedious tasks, scheduling for example, to give your team time back. So when you're shopping for an all-in-one solution, really take the time to dive into each option and understand where they're leveraging AI, because there are some really huge, big-time savings. So far, since we launched two months ago, we've already saved over 60,000 hours for the clients using our product. It's insane. And Avery has already booked 70,000 appointments on her own, with no human touching anything.

Shannon: It makes a huge difference if the company you're using for your EMR, your all-in-one solution, is thinking about building really smart AI that can give time back to your team and also make you money.

Terri: God, I love that you just said that. Even as a company — and I'm sure you're going through this too — I'm using Claude and co-work right now, and it's insane what the capabilities are. I want to ask you something controversial. Someone in our industry posted this big carousel, kind of a negative thing about AI, saying AI shouldn't replace a human, depending on what kind of business you're in, and that people are leaning too much on it. So this is really just a question — I'm equally seeking your thoughts, and I'm sure other people have opinions too, because I love that you're sharing statistics, because I think it's always about how the feature and function is being used in the right way, not as a crutch or a replacement, but, to your point, leveraging efficiencies in time.

Where is AI ready today, and where isn't it?

Shannon: Yeah, for sure. I'd say it's a work in progress. AI today — what it can be really good at is what we've launched it to be, and that's texting your clients, texting your leads. There's no reason a human needs to say the same thing over and over again, answer the same questions they're constantly getting, book appointments — humans don't need to do that. Your AI employee can be smart enough today to take all of that on.

Shannon: Where AI, in my opinion, is not ready, is AI voice. If I'm being honest, that's a product we've been working on for a year and a half now. We actually went to market with it and then rolled it back, because we know in this industry relationships matter tremendously. And if the AI can't be as good, if not better than a human, it's not ready for this industry yet. With AI voice, it's a little more complicated, because with text, if there's a 30-second delay before someone texts you back, that's totally natural, but on a phone call you need instant replies, otherwise it's very awkward. And you've got an AI employee sending calls to different language models to reply back as accurately and professionally as possible, and it's more challenging because it's real time. So it's not ready yet, AI voice, if I'm being honest.

Shannon: But for AI employees — not every AI employee is built the same. It's a very expensive product to build, and we didn't get it right right out of the gate, but we've been at this for two years, and we've launched different versions of Avery. So yeah, I'd say the Q&A, the commonly asked questions, the scheduling, sending out forms ahead of appointments, all of that can be done by AI. And guess what — your clients have no idea it's AI. It's that good.

Terri: Well, I love that you're being very specific, because I think we're all so busy, every practice owner, every practice manager, we're busy and inundated with everything that goes on in a practice every day. So for you to simplify it — because that would be my next question, and I think I know the answer too — but you talked about fragmentation, different systems, different logins, tons of time here, there, everywhere, so then nobody's doing a good job at any of it. And you guys were masters at your phone systems and features, which were incredible.

Why don't practices love their EMR?

Terri: But two questions I have: why, from your perspective — not mine, but I'm sure it's the same answer — why don't people love their EMR? And then when did you guys realize that stitching tools together is an ugly band-aid that doesn't really work, so you said, forget it, we're going to invest a very significant amount of money in our own operating system?

Shannon: Yeah. So your first question, on why don't people like their EMRs, there are a couple of major reasons. One, the practice owners and the practice staff feel like it's not very user-friendly, I'll just say that. Very DOS days, very old school. There are some EMRs that are a little more updated and have spent a lot of time making it visually pleasing, with a really good client experience that's client-facing, but the backend is still not easy for staff to use. I think back when these EMRs were built, it just didn't have the ease of tech that we have access to today. And with Podium being a newer, modern company, we thought: we get to build something from scratch, and we already have thousands of clients.

Shannon: So we actually pulled in a ton of clients to build this with us. We did not build this on our own — we haven't been in the industry for 20 years, so they know it better than anyone. We thought, we've got access to good technology, we have hundreds of engineers who live and breathe aesthetics, and we have clients willing to help us build the dream system. So we brought them in, we flew out to visit — we've got a lot of clients local to Utah, where our headquarters is — and we built it alongside them, alongside people who are using the product to do the charting, to have the consults, the people checking out the clients. They're the ones who helped us build this.

Shannon: And we had the funding and the resources, so we thought, if nobody likes their EMR, this industry deserves better. It deserves more intuitive software, and we just need to build it. It hasn't been easy, and I'm not going to claim we're perfect, but it's been really fun. We operate like a startup — we're hungry, we're scrappy, we move quick, and there are new products launching every single day. We literally have a product meeting every day with the CS team, the sales team and the product team, and we go over everything that's launching, what we're hearing, what's on the roadmap. It's been pretty fun.

Terri: Well, and I want to give you a shout-out too, because we've worked together now for years, and everybody who knows me knows I try to remain agnostic, which holds the integrity of my brand. That said, I have an affinity for you, for Podium and for very specific companies that I've seen firsthand do good work, and I wanted to give you and the company some accolades, because you just said it: things aren't perfect.

How did Podium become customer-obsessed?

Terri: They're not perfect anywhere, by the way, but personally, your responsiveness — you take it very seriously, as much as I do — and you're willing to get on the phone right away and make it right. You just can't say that about a lot of companies. So thanks for being humble, and for not bashing anybody else — you're just talking about the facts. You're working for a very innovative, high-growth company, which, by the way, I don't know that many people would know: tell people, Podium has a lot of other divisions.

Shannon: We do, yeah. We're actually in four different industries. About six months ago, we made the decision to invest the majority of our resources and funds into three industries. So we're in auto, on the dealership side, in home services, and then aesthetics is our fastest-growing vertical ever in the history of Podium. We're really excited about that, it's been really, really cool. We care a lot about our customers, and here's the difference: we operate differently, because for the EMR, for the fact that we were a luxury add-on, Terri — we were not the main system for the last few years.

Shannon: And when that's the case, you have to listen to your customers, you have to solve issues fast, because if you're a luxury add-on, they don't need you. We think you need us, but at the end of the day, we weren't their scheduling, we weren't their charts, we weren't their forms, we weren't their payments. So we had to learn — we didn't have the luxury of client retention just happening easily, whereas EMRs' retention is high, because it's a pain to migrate stuff over. So they may not be happy, but they're probably not leaving.

Shannon: So we've learned to be customer-obsessed, because we've had to be. Now that we are the EMR, we haven't lost that foundation of having to listen to our customers and act fast, and I think that's what also separates us. We've had clients of yours, Terri — I won't hide from that — who haven't had a great experience. For example, we hadn't had good reporting in the past, because we didn't have access to the payment data, so we didn't actually know what was converting as far as leads were concerned. But now that we have the payments and the scheduling, our reporting is killer. We're able to have that data now, so we can tell that story.

Terri: Well, I love that. So let's talk broad, and then we've been getting into it: what exactly is an AI operating system, for clarity, for the listeners, and how is it different from the EMR alone, the CRM alone, the phone system?

What exactly is an AI operating system?

Shannon: Yes. Well, one, we definitely didn't want to call it an EMR. I use that language in this conversation because I think it helps people understand what we're talking about, but we didn't want to call it an EMR because it's so much more than that. An EMR is generally your data storage — it's just information housed, and it's not a revenue driver, you're not doing anything with it to drive revenue. We knew we were going to build AI throughout our platform that was going to drive revenue, so we wanted it to be an AI operating system, because at the core, we are how you run your business by using our platform.

Shannon: Just to give a couple of examples of where AI is built throughout it: obviously I mentioned your AI employee, Avery, does a lot. She'll own all the scheduling, so she can handle reschedules, cancellations. She has all the details around which devices you have, which providers can use which device, so she doesn't double-book if a device is only in one room, for example — she knows everyone's schedules, so she can take that over completely.

Shannon: And then we've got her handling all the forms, so she knows when people are coming in, she knows the pre-appointment instructions she needs to send out, she knows the forms that need to go out, and if they don't fill out the forms, she stays on top of that and makes sure she's resending reminders, so that upon check-in that's not something that's going to slow down the whole process. And you guys have heard a couple of different systems trying to create this, but AI charting — the ability for Avery to just listen in on the consult and input all the information in the appropriate place — I think we're a couple of weeks out from that coming out. We're hoping to have it done before the Medical Spa Show in a couple of weeks.

Shannon: But it's things like that. We knew what the end goal was with our system, and come summer — come June, our product team says May, but I'll say June — it will be a full-blown AI revenue-mining platform. What I mean by that is, it starts to get really exciting when you think about your AI employee knowing buying behavior. She knows which of your clients use what skincare products, she knows what your treatment plan is, she knows what services you've done.

What is "revenue mining," and how will Avery drive new revenue?

Shannon: And she can now start looking for opportunities to send text messages and re-engage. Maybe somebody bought a product that expires — she knows it's a 30-day supply of skincare, so she can proactively reach out and say, "Hey Samantha, I noticed you're probably running low on your IS Clinical moisturizer, we've got it in stock, swing by and we'll hook you up." It's things like that. And then, her knowing people who aren't back on the calendar who have a treatment plan, and are due now for that service, she'll be able to proactively reach out. We're calling it revenue mining.

Shannon: That's where it starts to get really exciting, because there's so much good information in a system. If your AI employee has access to every conversation, purchase history, what they've done in the past, she can start to generate revenue for you, instead of it just being a data storage system.

Terri: I mean, that seriously gets me super excited, because that's clearly what I live, eat, breathe, die by. We're not even at the end of the quarter, and just myself alone have done, I think, twelve physical on-sites. One of the things I often hear is, when they're doing the treatment plan, if they can do it, their average spend goes up, next level. But then they say, "Okay, well Terri, I did tell Shannon she needs to be on this six- or twelve-month plan," but then they don't have any nurturing, they have no systems to follow up, and then it goes back to a manual process.

Shannon: God, I'm loving — I know we're going to work a little bit more closely together.

Terri: We will.

Shannon: Yeah, this is what I'm saying — we love to work with experts in the industry to understand what treatment plan management inside tech should look like and what it should be able to do. We're thrilled to be able to work with experts like you on what that dream system is to manage treatment plans, with a little less reliance on humans.

Terri: Yes. And if you guys think about what Shannon and I are both saying — and I'm going to repeat it back because I think repetition is key — people are constantly, when they call us to work with us, it's we're solving the same nine things, but everybody wants more revenue, more profit, more conversions, and a lot of other things. But if we're talking about needing, at the end of the day, to increase your EBITDA — that's my whole goal, that's her goal, our goal — it's to increase the valuation of your business, whether it's now or later, you have to act like that. The only way to do that is to maximize revenue from each person, or you're just doing them a disservice. You're wasting money on marketing, they're not being converted and they're not getting the optimal results.

Terri: So I am just elated to figure this out with you, because that's going to be next-level. We might intuitively say, "Yes, Shannon, we'll see you back in three months for your neurotoxin, six months for your filler, once a month for your lasers," whatever the plan is. But then, does the patient actually see the value, recognize where they can get better outcomes, be communicated with on a regular basis, not just pre-booked and then they cancel? Okay, cool, you got her on the books and then she canceled — then what?

Shannon: Yeah, now she's not compliant, and there's nobody but a manual person doing it. This is going to be next-level, a game-changer too. And I love what you're saying about increasing revenue — that was going to be my next question. What was Podium really trying to solve? Not just deficiencies and putting it all together, I get that, but you also said you're trying to be a revenue generator for the company, not just another piece of software.

What is Podium really trying to solve for practices?

Shannon: Yeah, we want to put it simply: we want to make you guys money. That's what we want it to do, and there's no reason software can't do that, especially with the advancements of AI. There are some things AI will not be able to do, and it's everything Terri is a master at: AI will not be able to build a human relationship, sit in front of a client and understand their desired outcomes and connect with them. That will never be replaced by AI. But you should absolutely be thinking about how you can use technology to manage those treatment plans long-term and drive revenue. We're obsessed with just making you guys more money.

Shannon: If we can — and we are open to any ideas — anyone going to the Medical Spa Show, we're bringing some of our engineers out, and we want people to come tell us what their dream system would look like, and understand what we haven't built yet and how we can go build it. And I'm not talking like we'll build that in a few months. If it's bells and whistles, we'll build it tomorrow. Our CEO is big on, we build it in 48 hours. There's no reason you can't go faster, go faster. There's just so much to do, but we can build things pretty quickly, which is really fun.

Terri: No, it's so exciting. I want to go back for a minute and then we'll wrap this up. This is really exciting, but you gave a couple of statistics early on that I want to revisit, because I think people need to hear it loud and clear. One of the things we talk about is, on the P&L, when we do a business evaluation, we always find people's compensation plans are wrong, pricing's wrong, payroll's too high. You talked about saving — and look, guys, no one's saying we want to let go of your team, that's not the point of what I'm saying. But where do practices see the biggest lift?

Where do practices see the biggest lift?

Terri: You mentioned a couple of things: they're going to see a lift from the efficiencies, and then they're saving money.

Shannon: So you can pull your payroll costs down, you guys. We do have to be smart about that. We don't need to put someone in a role that's driving revenue for you, not texting ten thousand people.

Terri: The same thing is what you said.

Shannon: Yeah, one of the biggest lifts for sure is now the ability to book appointments after hours. That is when we have "selfish time," when women and men have time to themselves, work is over, kids are put to bed, whatever it is. You've got 40% of your traffic coming in after hours, and you're not open. So not only — and yes, Podium before had Avery, and she could answer questions — but being able to take her next level, where she can actually get people on the calendar and booked while they're most excited and interested, that right there is a huge lift.

Shannon: Not to mention the rescheduling: if somebody's trying to book an appointment with you, you go back and forth, you say mornings are better, but the person you want to meet with isn't available at that time. Stuff can just drop off, and that appointment could never get booked. Now you're leaving it up to AI that can be faster. Bookings aren't going to slip through the cracks. It's a game-changer, truly.

Terri: And by the way, Shannon nailed it. Think about your front desk, think about how they spend their time. If you could take certain tasks off their plate, where could they be really good and lean in? I'm talking check-in, check-out — are they really nailing that experience and optimizing the time they have when somebody's right in front of them? I bet they're rushed sometimes, because there's a phone ringing, or there's a lead coming in and they're trying to manage it, and they're rushing that experience, and they won't have to anymore if you've got a system that can give you that time.

Shannon: I think with the system doing it, and then with the help of — what if they now just maximized the system, and we're able to analyze reports and actually look at data, actually look at what moves the needle, so it's not management saying top-down "this is what has to happen, team," but they own it, and feel so good about getting more people in the door from this new system, and then they're able to do things to drive more revenue.

Terri: A hundred percent. All right, so this was phenomenal. I can't wait to see you at the Medical Spa Show, it's going to be a huge, exciting time. So what do you think, as we wrap this up, what's going to separate the practices that win now and beyond, versus the ones that just stay stagnant, that are scared to make a change?

What separates the practices that win from the ones that stay stagnant?

Terri: That aren't willing to — let's call it what it is, be honest — they're trying to do it on their own, they're in a Facebook group and their friend told them some stuff to do. I hear it too, and it's super frustrating for me sometimes, when we know the results that we get. But what's going to separate these practices?

Shannon: Yeah, I mean, I think everyone knows, like it's been said over and over again, this industry was booming in 2020, it had a couple of amazing years, you had a med spa, you were successful, and that changed. And although we could get into a conversation around wellness, and that being the future, and it helping drive up revenue and everything, at the end of the day, this industry is competitive, and it isn't going anywhere.

Shannon: I feel like it's going to continue to disrupt healthcare, and the ones who are innovative and ahead of the game — AI is not just an aesthetics thing, you guys know this. AI is changing our entire world as we speak, and consumers are getting very used to interacting with AI employees, AI in general. It's looked at as cutting-edge and innovative, and the ones who don't get on board are just not going to survive, because the industry is already so competitive. How in the world can you expect to compete against the superpower that is an AI employee now? You just can't.

Shannon: And the fact that we already — we've got 1,500 AI employees out there in aesthetics today — so in a sense you're a little bit behind if you don't already have one, and we're going to keep growing very, very quickly. It'll be really difficult for any practice to try to compete with just human man-hours, honestly.

Terri: Well, I'll add to that, and then we'll wrap it up where people can find you, Shannon, and contact you and talk to you about it, because I'm going to echo what she said. We're in this competitive environment, it's a commodity. Fighting for Botox and Restylane and Juvederm, boob jobs, facelifts, whatever it is, we're all fighting for these same terms. So now it's next-level, and I talk so much about mapping out your patient journey, you guys.

Terri: I'm going to invite you to map it out: from the time there's a lead, to a social media touch, to a phone call, to they walked in, they had a consult, they check out — I just gave you six things to look at. The follow-up, that's seven. If your business is fragmented in any one of those areas, you need help. We're here to support you and make it easier for you, not harder. Investing in Podium, investing in working with us, this isn't meant to be a sales pitch. It is an investment, it's not an expense. It's a true investment in the evolution of your business, to be more sustainable, more profitable, and give you time back.

Terri: So Shannon, this was really fantastic and exciting for me too, to learn a little bit more. How can people reach you, call you, do a demo?

How can practices reach Shannon for a demo?

Shannon: Yeah, yeah, I'll just say one more thing and then I'll share that. Hopefully this conversation excites you guys, this isn't Podium trying to steal the show and be the only operating system. I really believe technology in aesthetics is all going to level up, so this is a very exciting time, everyone should be excited about it. It's our job to stay ahead of innovation, ahead of the curve, and build really cutting-edge products for you all, to help you make more money and grow your business. So hopefully everyone's fired up about it.

Shannon: As far as where you can find me, one place, if you want to learn a little more, you can go to podium.com/aesthetics. We just did a full new rebrand on the aesthetics page, because it's its own vertical, its own focus at Podium. So go check it out there, you're going to see a lot of customer testimonials, you'll be able to dig in on some products.

Shannon: But if you want to see a demo, I'm also a weirdo, and I love when people text or call me and want to chat about AI and pick my brain. So I'll give out my cell number.

Terri: Oh, this is dangerous.

Shannon: I know, I don't care, I do it too. This is how much — this is white-glove service, you guys.

Terri: Right? Yes.

Shannon: For my Terri community, you can absolutely have my cell. It's [phone number removed]. And hey, if you're a Podium customer today, and you're like, "I want to talk about how I can better train my AI employee," call me, text me, let's chat, because we stand behind her, she is the premier AI employee in the industry. She does take some training and strategy with us, happy to jam out with anyone on that. If you just want to pick my brain about AI in general, if you're interested in a demo, literally anything, call or text me. I'm a text girl, but feel free to call me too.

Terri: Listen, stalkers out there — I know she's hot, I was making a joke, I know she's, you know, she's all those things, but...

Shannon: No, I love making new friends in this industry, so don't hesitate to reach out.

Terri: I know. Listen, I think we're so grateful to be in an industry that is growing and evolving, and just making people look and feel their best. So tribe, I love y'all so much, and everything we do here at TRC and with In Touch with Terri, and all my beautiful friends and partners in this industry, I am grateful for what we're all doing to level up each other, and to support each other and grow collectively together. The smart way, not the hard way.

Terri: So if you guys want to learn more, please reach out to Shannon, and I cannot wait to see you guys at the Medical Spa Show. Let's rock on. And we'll see you on the next episode of In Touch with Terri. Ciao.